In early June, we conducted conversations with Rosanne Haggerty, the CEO of Community Solutions, and Dr. Sam Tsemberis, the founder of the Housing First approach. You can read the interview with Haggerty on page 4 and the one with Tsemberis was printed in our last issue.
The questions we asked were developed by several members of the Vendor Leadership Team. Shawn Lesley served as their representative and conducted the in-person interviews with assistance from Judy.
After talking to both experts, we felt extremely energized. Since then several members of the Vendor Leadership Team asked us about our impressions, and we decided to share those with all our readers.
Shawn: By talking to both of these national leaders, I learned that there are people out there trying to actually help homelessness, people who care enough to help, people who see that we can be helped. These two interviews made a difference in my life. Because going into it, I did not see any of that. But hearing from Dr. Tsemberis and how he went out on the streets to listen to people and then help them by actually housing them — and then Rosanne Haggerty, and how her organization helps push communities to do more. That was really inspiring.
Judy: Both of them have been heroes of mine for years. I’ve heard them speak before and had lunch with Rosanne a few years ago. I was clearly awestruck and cannot express how much I appreciate them taking the time to sit down with us, and also for the Vendor Leadership Team to put these questions together, and for you, Shawn, to conduct the interviews.
Shawn: I’ve never thought that people who have not been homeless themselves would have that much good to share about how to help the homeless. But both of them said they wouldn’t have been in their position if they never listened to homeless people about what’s going on, what they need, and what the problem was.
If you think about it, many people think, let’s give them medication to help them. Then give them housing. But after they listened to people, they found that housing needs to come first and then all the other situations can be handled.
They truly listen and hear what homeless people say because without us being heard, we can never make a change. A homeless person can tell you more about what’s going on, how they feel, and not all of what you hear is going to be good.
What homeless people really want besides money is a roof over their head — to feel at home, to feel love, to feel that they don’t have to be outside. They want to just get out of that crisis mode. And when they get into the place, then you work with them on everything else that’s wrong with them. So, focusing on Housing First makes sense.
Judy: On that note, one thing that Dr. Tsemberis said that stood out to me is that Housing First is really about relationship building with people. We sometimes forget about the importance of that part of the work. Putting relationships at the center of the work keeps the focus on people. Community cannot be created without building strong relationships first. And Rosanne spoke about how we can move away from tokenism where we use people with lived experience to pretend we listen to their ideas. She spoke about the importance of truly integrating people into our workforce and organizational structures.
Shawn: I really wanted to know whether there are cities that do not have a homelessness problem. Dr. Tsemberis said that in smaller European cities where the income gap between the rich and the poor is less than here in the United States, they do not see the same numbers we see here. They also have healthcare in those countries.
In Nashville, we don’t have enough housing for the poor. But we are seeing all these buildings, all these homes and apartments going up. You mean to tell me that there is no place you can put people who are homeless? What about all these abandoned buildings? What about these office buildings that could be renovated?
Judy: Yes! The fact that Dr. Tsemberis pointed to the income disparity in America stood out to me, too. And he also spoke about homelessness being at the extreme end of poverty. I liked that because for the past 25 years in this city, we have tried to separate the issues of homelessness from poverty and from housing. Our community has tried to lead separate conversations and come up with separate solutions. It’s just relatively recently, maybe in the past five years or so, that we have started talking about homelessness and housing as a spectrum here in Nashville. But we seem to still struggle to see homelessness as a poverty issue. We keep focusing on mental health, substance use, and individual failures as reasons for homelessness, rather than the structural issues that cause homelessness in the United States. That Dr. Tsemberis talked to us about that meant a lot to me personally, confirming some of my thinking.
Shawn: Each one of them came up with their own different way of handling and dealing with homelessness. That’s what inspired me even more. For them to come up with and work on solutions, then that means to me, as someone who has experienced homelessness and went through homelessness, that it can be done. I mean, I’ve got my own ideas of how we can help, but some of their ideas let me know that the path that I’m on to try to help with homelessness is right.
Judy: Both interviews served as a needed reminder that it is important that we continue to advocate. It is OK to be critical. It is OK to speak up, even if it is sometimes uncomfortable. What we need to understand and learn, especially in our community right now, is that disagreement does not need to end in an “us against them” battle. Rather, it can open the door to new conversations and lead to improvements for better solutions. Accountability is important, and it doesn’t happen when we are silenced or intimidated.
Shawn: The state and cities get all this money to help people get off the street, so there will be no homelessness in each and every city. But what are they doing with it? That’s the first thing we need to ask. I know, it’s not going to be an overnight thing. But after talking to these two experts, I also know it can be done.
Judy: What these two individuals, Dr. Sam Tsemberis and Rosanne Haggerty, have achieved in creating two movements that go hand in hand is incredible. They have done this by going against the traditional approaches. They listened to the people on the streets. By doing that, they have improved systems. They have saved countless lives. They have and continue to give me hope that our community can do better and will do better.
Shawn: Walking away, I felt that it can work. We can help everybody get off the streets if more and more people want it. When I say “more and more people” I mean the heads of corporations, the mayor, the governor, commissioners — all these people on top. If they listen, then there will be no homelessness here in the United States of America.